When Jesus comes, He will establish His government on the earth. To imply He forgot some things would discount His perfection, both as man and as God. Peter writes " One day is as a thousand years to the Lord" So who is right God's word or a professor ?????? long) that explore the biblical and scientific truths of the Bible’s opening chapters. that is what the writers are trying to tell us, that the 'whole box and dice' was made in six days. They do not even know all that happens in this world; they are among us, but they come and go. If Jesus accepted worship of Himself, this would mean He believed He was divine. What is this ‘big picture’? 1. LONG LIVE THE KING! For example, when Jesus came to Earth, He came to do the will of the Father who sent Him (John 6:38), but do not overlook the larger point. Recently I attended a 'Seminar exploring Christ's descent to the dead'. This is why He attributed His ability to perform miracles to the Holy Spirit ( Matt. And in ingnorace and arrogance and the spirit of anti-Christ, they use this knowedge to give themselves credit and try to refute the Truth and teach an entire generation the first verse in the Bible is a lie, so then is the rest, God is a fairy tale, its a Spiritual warfare and the the souls of millions hang in the balance. But lest we should offend them, go to the sea and cast a hook, and take up the first fish that comes up. 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, Phil. Jesus had a cheerful happy demeanor that children (Matthew 19:13) were attracted to Him and He showed them … I suppose that they've conveniently forgotten how the Lord fed the multitudes. Do we have any way of knowing? (John 19:14-16) Jesus was about 30 years old when he began his three-and-a-half-year ministry, so he was born in the early fall of 2 B.C.E.—Luke 3:23. "What Was Jesus Doing Before He Came to Earth?" That is not possible if people are not there from the beginning, in effect. Jesus on the age of the earth Jesus believed in a young world, but leading theistic evolutionists say He is wrong. Not ever since people were created. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." . On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. Jesus is in effect implying that He Himself had been around right from the beginning. The scriptures answer the professor's assertion that our Lord left His perfect knowledge in Heaven at the Incarnation. But to be bluntly honest NO one on earth knows exactly what the periods of creation were. Jesus had laid down His heavenly glory and authority in order to become the suffering servant, and after His resurrection, He was given all authority in heaven and on earth… God is omniscient, having all knowledge. I am reading a book lent to me called Privileged Planet by Guillermo something and Jay Richards. For Christians, the Bible is our source of truth about God, and it is full of information about Jesus, including what he was doing before he came to earth. One thing is very clear from all this. Al B. wrote - "This is what I always knew and believed, but never took the time to really search in the Scriptures to be able to defend my faith". “For He was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15. This is in contrast to the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator made flesh,1 as well as several of the biblical authors,2 which makes it plain that this is wrong—people were there from the beginning of creation. I would hope he would also agree that one should especially be on guard against any attempt to twist the Scripture so that it is supposed to be saying something opposite to what it is--especially the words coming out of the mouth of the Saviour Himself, as highlighted in this article. But he never rejected the use of his medical skills, because he knew God could use them to bring healing. This is one of the tortuous ways for longagers to try to get around this question, but it has huge problems. . Yes, the Devil tried repeatedly to tempt Jesus. This divine being, designated by the distinct term “the” angel of the Lord, was different from created angels.An indication that it might have been Jesus … I was appalled to hear a theological scholar of the Apostle's Creed say such a thing.It was definitely not worth the effort to attend.Thank you once again for the clarity that CMI articles always give to my spiritual life. If it’s not written it DID NOT happen, if written, is irrefutable as is the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ. Given the 'big picture' creationists have exposed / are exposing of geology's world-wide sedimentary patterns and the Flood, the RATE group's findings, and the Sanford data on the recency of the human genome, for example it is not as if the ' age question' is being ignored. The key verse in all this is Exodus 20:11, in which every created thing in the heavens and on earth, period, is made in those six days. And in Romans 1:20, the Apostle Paul says of God: “For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. "Christians" effectively calling Jesus as misguided at best and a liar at worst. Jesus, speaking around 4,000 years after creation,4 was correct to say that Day 6, when humans were created, was effectively ‘the beginning of creation’ as seen from thousands of years later. The Bible does not explain every detail of every single thing. This is what I always knew and believed, but never took the time to really search in the Scriptures to be able to defend my faith, in this area. This is the same body we will one day get (Phil 3:21)(1 Cor 15:48-49)(1 Jn 3:2). Jesus clearly not only knew the past but also knew the future, it is junk to claim he only knew the future. If the climate skeptics do prevail in this complex matter, I suspect it will need to involve much more than the alleged climate records--precisely because these are open to challenge in interpretation. Certainly the Lord knows how long it took to create the earth. Why should CMI not follow Christ's example in this regard? Man created nothing, just rearranged material created by God with knowledge given from God. One of the greatest examples of this comes from the lips of Thomas when he exclaims in worship before Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). If I had had the presence of mind, an appropriate response might have been to ask something like the following: [Added by author Nov 2014: The Lord Jesus repeatedly made it clear that His words and actions were on the Father’s authority, in all respects. Where were they when God flung the stars in space?? If Collins is a theist, what God is it that he believes in? Satan is very busy indeed whispering into the ears of so called Christians making them believe Jesus was wrong about the timing of creation. A vague clue as to what the Trinity was doing before creation came from Jesus himself: So we know the Trinity was always “working,” but at what we are not told. Firstly, and very importantly, the professor’s comments were a clear admission that the words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, as recorded in the Bible, confirm that He believed that things were recently created. The term "theistic evolutionist" is itself an oxymoron from a Biblical perspective. But church doctrine also says Jesus is God, one of the three Persons of the Trinity, and has no beginning and no end. Even the article we are directing you to could, in principle, change without notice on sites we do not control. 12:28 ), was in daily prayer with the Father, claimed not to know certain things ( Matt. It is rare to see experts who wrote the articiles take the time to respond to the posts, which often need a solid response. What was His life like while on earth? By using Learn Religions, you accept our. I would include myself in the statement. First, if I simply had said 'Professor Barr said this, so you should believe it', that would be an example of the fallacy of appeal to authority, as you rightly point out. Jesus was omnipotent (all powerful) while on earth. The Hebrew word used in Genesis Yowm, means a period of time, the heating part of the day, a section of time it simply does not mean a 24 hour day! Somewhat taken by surprise, I said, “Well, how do you deal with that, then?” (He would of course have assumed, correctly, that I knew of the long-age position of this prominent organisation of theistic evolutionists.) What tortured reasoning to think Jesus did not know the past! I will repeat your comments if I may, but firstly let me suggest that it is not just a question of any personal 'unease', what is at stake is the trustworthiness of the entire fabric of Christian doctrine, if one thinks it through carefully. it is my number one source for the creation/evolution debate. The only time this triune bond was broken was when the Father abandoned Jesus on the cross. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. I personally come across this issue every week and i have the confidence to defend my faith knowing that there is a well put and relaible source such as creation ministries! This asserts that in the Incarnation, Jesus emptied Himself of divine attributes, which is a misunderstanding of Philippians 2:6–7: This does indeed talk about ‘emptying’ (kenosis1), but what does it actually say? His way of being able to hold onto his theistic evolutionary view was to claim that Jesus was not lying, it was just that He was poorly informed. And thus he feed thousands. ", Learn Religions uses cookies to provide you with a great user experience. Now I will be able to defend my faith in this area, like I can in healing, Salvation, and faith in general. The Son of *MAN* (Hebrews 4:15) needed HELP from the "ONE SELFSAME SPIRIT!" God hath prepared His Bride without spot nor wrinkle, presented faultless before the Father with exceeding joy. But I recall saying something about Jesus being the Creator, God made flesh; He was there at creation, He does not lie, that sort of thing. He certainly didn't wait for the meal to evolve and self-propagate. Nevertheless, given its prominence and its keystone nature in this whole debate, it can never be addressed 'too much'. Sin did not corrupt the physical creation until Adam fell (He had been given dominion over it, not Satan). (2020, August 27). And John 12:49–50: “For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. (John 4:14; 18:36, 37) Jesus also taught people many things about finding real happiness. This doesn’t mean, however, that we shouldn’t pray when someone is sick and ask God to heal them. This error from many leading theistic evolutionists is not a new idea. It is a 'very good' original world created fully-functioning, with people part of the original biosphere, and which was ruined by human sin, to be restored in the future. I shouldn't have to remind most readers that recent creation (c. 6 kya) was also the position of the overwhelming majority of both Judaist and Christian scholars, including scientists such as the great Sir Isaac Newton. 6000yrs and still sitting on horse and buggy, last 150 yrs and we went to the moon, fly aournd this planet in jumbo jets, have computers, internet, MRI's, neuclear power, a billion cars, written in the last days knowlege would increase 100 fold, by what means, we can see in literature, man has literally changed little, all that is made was made by Him and nothing was made except by Him, heard the testimony of man who is a non practicing Jew and a Christian couple that helped him out of many scrapes asked if they could pray for him...he thought what could it hurt to humouor them..all they said was Jesus, reveal yourself to him...he said suddenly he was out of the building across the street on the bank of the Thames river with Jesus, Jesus pointed up to an airplane overhead, then pointed to a big cargo boat going up the river, then across to cars flying by on the freeway, He then bent over and scooped up a handful of sand in one hand and water in the other and Said..out of this and this, I created all these things...where did we think the knowlege suddenly came from? And I know that his commandment is eternal life. The first clue lies in the Trinity. Otherwise, they should stop calling themselves Christians as they certainly don't believe in what Jesus said. Who Is the Angel of the Lord in the Bible? Paul is plainly saying that people have been able to perceive these attributes of God in His creation ever since the creation of the world. In Australia, as in most British systems, ‘professor’ means head of a department. The Bible testifies that Jesus as God voluntarily emptied Himself to assume the form of man: Phil. See also Cosner, L.. CMI may choose not to publish your comment depending on how well it fits the guidelines outlined above. He provided the hope of everlasting life. If one individually attacks each instance in which this sort of reference is used with seemingly sophisticated arguments, there is a point at which it becomes sophistry, akin to a JW trying to deny the Trinity, when the ‘big picture’ is so plain and obvious that for nearly 20 centuries, the overwhelming majority of the church understood it in exactly the same way. When Thomas saw the resurrected Jesus, He made the clear and accurate statement, "My Lord and my God!" The Trinity must be accepted on faith. But we cannot assume responsibility for, nor be taken as endorsing in any way, any other content or links on any such site. Learn Religions. I was wondering when sin first entered the world and affected all of creation? 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Your subscription already exists. Jesus set to go to the cross before the foundations of the world were laid in place, the corner stone. (Matthew 24:36) This would appear that He had "laid aside" his omniscience, at least partly. Jesus Christ on the infallibility of Scripture, Genesis: Bible authors believed it to be history. A proper analogy to the above would be if Jesus were preaching about His coming return and giving the wrong information about it. Subjectively, here at the beginning of Advent 2018 , while liturgically we await—I hope with patience and anticipatory joy—His birth on December 25, 2018, we can say He will be born , very soon now, as He has been born, each year, during more than two millennia. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”]. He just provided what was needed ... instantly. During Jesus three-year ministry, what did He do? This professor himself, in addition to his secular science qualifications, was well regarded in the theological arena as well as being very biblically literate. We have supplied this link to an article on an external website in good faith. Why did the Lord allow Thomas to call him “God” (Jn. This divine being, designated by the distinct term “the” angel of the Lord, was different from created angels. Privacy Policy, Praise Jesus and all of his infinite knowledge and wisdom! Do you know of a brief review/critque of their book by someone in your camp? We know the age of man by the generations recorded in scripture and recorded for a reason. God Becomes a Man. Mat 17:27. He didn’t just do a work: He preached the kingdom of God and He brought in the kingdom of God on the earth. It can range anything from 4'000 to 10,000 years old. Jesus publicly described public figures who gave the pretense of being followers of God "Sons of Satan", and much more, to more accurately reflect their beliefs. That above verse in the bible explains to us how the facial appearance of The Lord was when He used to live among men on earth. Full Question When Jesus was on earth in human form, did he commit sins like other humans? So these theistic evolutionists really must charge God the Father with error as well.3, Check your email! Jesus was hung on a cross between two criminals. When he walked this earth, what was Jesus called? The three Persons of the Trinity are always in complete accord. Thanks for your reply Carl. I know that tactically, they say that offence is the best form of defence, and I suppose when one is trying to defend a difficult position, being sufficiently 'blustering' might be a way of trying to hope that people will not see the weakness of the case. The two were probably not far apart in time, though; the first couple were told to be fruitful preFall, yet the first conception (Cain) is after the Fall. Thanks for this excellent article. Jesus put it this way in Luke 19:10: “The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.” When it comes to the authenticity of the Bible as God’s word, I imagine our future meeting proceeding something like this: It is very true that Jesus knew a lot about the beginnings of the earth, John 1states that " All things were created through Him" Jesus was the force of creation as He and he Father are one, Genesis states " Let us" the creation was made through spiritual power through Christ. Without Him, we can do Nothing and heart would cease, and this world would oblivate, but by Him all things are possible. This was because when He as God the Son became flesh, laying aside aspects of His divinity included divesting Himself of all knowledge about what really happened when He had created all things. The Lord Jesus sowed the seed of the kingdom (Matt. Augustine--young earth creationist: theistic evolutonists take Church Father out of context. As such, it is interesting to see some of the things He … Each of the three Persons of the Trinity is God, including Jesus. Great article as usual and much appreciated. This is a big problem evolutionist have just as creationist! This does not water down my belief in any way, I have been born again by GOD'S Holy Spirit for over 20 years, by his grace and mercy and give him all the Glory, but there is more to all this then meets the eye. Jesus was human in every way. In the US, professor simply means someone who teaches at tertiary level, which could apply to someone, for example, who would be called a ‘junior lecturer’ in a British system. So although there is often a lot of disagreement about the age of the earth from evolutionists. Jesus in Disguise . Applying these terms too literally led to the teaching that Jesus was a created being, which is considered heresy in Christian theology. ‘From the beginning of creation’—what did Jesus mean? The New Testament reveals Jesus receiving worship on many occasions. 10:30)? If even Jesus’ words in Scripture can’t be trusted on some issues, how are we supposed to trust anything in the Bible at all? However, I'm not a theistic evolutionist, neither do I know this professor you speak of or his theology. Some would even say that to dispute billions of years is to place an unnecessary stumbling block in the way of any scientifically-minded potential converts. Did Jesus receive worship from others? The Bible says “God is love.” (1 John 4:8, NIV). However a lot of creationists differ. Fairchild, Mary. The age question is a key plank for Bible-deniers, who will hardly be inclined to give in lightly, regardless of the strength of the arguments. The series lays a vital foundation for understanding both the world around us, and the Gospel itself. The most striking (and sad) example of this switch in authority source I know of comes from a personal experience. Fools!!! How could Jesus, who knew the future and what people were thinking, who, at 12 years of age, amazed and taught the learned scholars about the Bible, not know about the past? That is, He didn’t empty anything out of Himself, such as divine attributes; rather, His emptying of Himself was by taking. But when the speaker said that "Jesus believed the world was flat!(Why?) God took a rib from Adam & made Eve….so much for evolution and the science fiction cartoonist…Satan who deceives the whole world…who believes and trembles….and all reproduce after their own kind. God created Jesus before he created anything else. Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Jesus, also called Jesus Christ, Jesus of Galilee, or Jesus of Nazareth, (born c. 6–4 bce, Bethlehem—died c. 30 ce, Jerusalem), religious leader revered in Christianity, one of the world’s major religions.He is regarded by most Christians as the Incarnation of God. I recently have had a very similar experience with a well-known theologian, church leader and writer in one of the largest churches in South Africa who believes that Jesus only had an inadequate pre-modern worldview and knowledge with his first coming and possibly did not even know of his two natures -- God and man. For example, on the American theistic evolutionary site BioLogos, led by Francis Collins, there appeared the following: This is all the more serious because Jesus and the apostles used the history they taught to back up the theology that they taught. THANK YOU! This excellent new resource contains 12 DVDs (each 30-40 min. The Angel of the Lord rescued Sarah’s handmaid Hagar and her son Ishmael.